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ZS4BDK
Junior Forumer
184 Posts |
 Posted - 04/10/2009 : 06:28:47
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Winmor sound card virtual TNC for the Winlink 2000 HF SSB email system. I.e. Email from the Bundu or the High Seas.
500 Hz
1600 Hz
CPU usage laptop #1, 1.5 Ghz, 1 Gb RAM, Windows XP on .Net 3.5
CPU usage laptop #2 (the XYL's....Shhh), also 1.5 Ghz, 1 Gb RAM, Windows XP on .Net 3.5 running less programs in the background.
The images above were created during Beta testing of RMS Express incorporating Winmor. Two laptops adjacent to each other, talking to each other through the internal soundcards and internal mikes and speakers. (Local loop, acoustic coupling).
- I.e. no RF. The radios were shortcircuited out. Soundcard quality is key. This could be an inexpensive external thumb (USB) soundcard. A bad el cheapo internal soundcard (on older laptops), gives a bad constellation display, and can cause the still fragile software to crash. - My observation. Note the CPU usage for the 500 Hz bandwidth. There is NO significant increase in CPU usage for the 1600Hz bandwidth.
RMS Express Email client allowing attachments. Can connect to both Telnet (Internet) and Winmor-enabled RMS (HF Internet node) for the Winlink 2000 amateur radio email system.
Hi All,
The Ham bands in the USA and Europe are buzzing with hams testing a new digital protocol, nl Winmor, (Soundcard virtual TNC) for the Winlink 2000 Amateur Radio messaging system. (Email via HF and VHF).
The Beta version software (RMS Express 0.3.6.0) is available for FREE on Yahoo Groups - Winmor. (You will need to sign in to your free Yahoo account.)
All testing results are also posted here between participating hams for each other's benefit.
Please read all the supporting documentation and educate yourself on Winmor before posting something.....=)
No more expensive TNC needed ?
In the Yahoo Winmor Group:
Click on "Files" to the left.
Look for "RMS Express 0.3.6.0 Full Install.zip"
Also definitely read "RMS Express Install Instructions.doc"
It works well under Windows XP.
For Windows Vista you need to create your own download directory.
Sign in to your free Yahoo account (or create it), if you cannot open this direct link:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WINMOR/files/
Have fun.
Bernard
ZS4BDK
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Edited by - ZS4BDK on 02/01/2010 23:44:55 |
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ZS6YI
Average Forumer
369 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2009 : 07:13:06
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Cool Bernard, thanks for the heads-up.
73
Gary ZS6YI
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ZS6BNE
Advanced Forumer
2969 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2009 : 08:00:53
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Hi Bernard,
Thanks , I've joined the group (A little battle but we're in  )
73 de Eddie ZS6BNE
SARL Member
SA AMSAT Member
LARK (ZS6LRK) Chairman / QSL Manager
RaDAR Operator
http://www.nwinternet.za.org/zs6bne/RaDAR |
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ZS6BNE
Advanced Forumer
2969 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2009 : 19:03:33
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Hi guys,
RMS Express (Incorporating Winmor) is installed and heaps of beta tester emails coming to my inbox.
Bernard , I got your Winlink mail via Telnet. Heard the WinMOR tones on the sound card. I must interface the laptop to the FT-817ND and do some HF tests soon. Sounds good!
I've played around in the past with Airmail , Winlink 2000 , PaclinkMP and RMS packet all really great under utilized technolgies.
Ideal for RaDAR ops!!! 
73 de Eddie ZS6BNE
SARL Member
SA AMSAT Member
LARK (ZS6LRK) Chairman / QSL Manager
RaDAR Operator
http://www.nwinternet.za.org/zs6bne/RaDAR |
Edited by - ZS6BNE on 04/10/2009 19:04:32 |
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ZS4BDK
Junior Forumer
184 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2009 : 22:01:09
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Hi All,
Look at this guy's setup: It works !
WINMOR] My Mheard list from Trinidad & Tobago so far
From: winmor@yahoogroups.com on behalf of leonsngh (control@tstt.net.tt)
Sent: 04 October 2009 06:20:19 PM
To: WINMOR@yahoogroups.com
This is my Mheard listing so far .......Keep in mind my setup here is a "KISS" setup i.e ..... Feeding audio from radio speaker into Mic connected to PC ..... Speaker from PC feeding into Mic of Radio (IC 756) with VOX on...And it works, I have been making connects and exchanged messages on 14.112...Working great so far...
2009/10/03 18:30:31 OE3ZK
2009/10/03 18:28:32 PD4U
2009/10/03 18:00:30 LA5VNA
2009/10/03 17:20:42 C56DL
2009/10/03 16:55:41 K9CGQR
2009/10/03 16:18:58 VE2AEY
2009/10/03 16:06:33 K4PPK
2009/10/03 15:25:52 VA3LKI
2009/10/03 14:47:17 NY3J
2009/10/03 14:33:29 N1CPE
2009/10/03 14:24:58 W5SEG
2009/10/03 13:32:30 KB0E
2009/10/03 00:46:42 W4JLE
2009/10/03 00:36:46 W0RLI
2009/10/03 00:32:24 K4JCC
2009/10/02 23:56:07 VE2FXL
2009/10/02 23:55:40 W9ON
2009/10/02 00:00:24 N7EP
2009/10/01 23:57:29 KG9B
2009/10/01 22:11:29 K3UK
2009/10/01 21:43:05 VE7EVS
2009/10/01 21:25:35 KB5OZE
Leon Singh - 9Z4BM
http://9z4bm.tripod.com/
http://9z4bm-hamradio.tripod.com/
I am able to do all things through Christ who strengthens me .
-------------------------------------------------------------------
In other words, NO fancy stuff needed to make this work.....
This is exciting stuff !
I agree, great for RaDAR !
7.080 and 14.112 is buzzing with Beta testing activity here.
Bernard
ZS4BDK
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Edited by - ZS4BDK on 12/11/2009 04:38:52 |
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ZS1AFU
Junior Forumer
189 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 07:31:58
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Hey Bernard this is great stuff!
I used to play with winlink and a scs ptc3 modem when sailing - was extremely useful during an ocean crossing.
Problem with Winmore is - will the sysops support it - guys like zs5s, etc.
Will be good if we can stop the monopoly of the SCS guys. I have for years wondered why somebody doen't come up with a soundcard based pactor 2/3 program - obviously because of the licensing issues with SCS.
Hope this Winmor will become the de facto standard for Winlink.
de Deon ZS1AFU |
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ZR4LP
Senior Forumer
575 Posts |
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ZS1AFU
Junior Forumer
189 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 11:37:22
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ZR4LP
Sorry - going old. Cannot see the download link to the file/s. Please post the url here.
Deon |
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ZS4BDK
Junior Forumer
184 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 14:23:26
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Hi guys,
There is no downloadable Winmor software on the Winlink 2000 website, - yet.
The initial Winmor Beta testing software is ONLY available on the Yahoo Groups Winmor page, under the "File" link to the left.
It works well under Windows XP.
For Windows Vista you need to create your own download directory.
I think you will only be able to download the software after signing in to your free Yahoo account.
But here is the direct link:
Sign in to your Free Yahoo account (or create it), if you cannot open this direct link.
Look for "RMS Express 0.3.1.0 Full Install.zip"
Also definitely read "RMS Express Install Instructions.doc"
It works well under Windows XP.
For Windows Vista you need to create your own download directory.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WINMOR/files/
Bernard
ZS4BDK
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Edited by - ZS4BDK on 20/10/2009 20:43:16 |
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ZS4BDK
Junior Forumer
184 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 14:44:38
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Hi Deon,
Great to see you did an ocean crossing on a sailboat.- My dream still.
Well, you know all about Pactor 1,2,and 3 then.
Winmor protocol software (in some future form) will be running simultaneously with Pactor 1,2,or 3 on all HF RMS's for the Winlink 2000 system at some time soon after the Beta testing is over. The user will have to choose between a Pactor connection, or a Winmor connection.
So far the Beta guys have only seen the fastest thruputs at about 1k b/minute between far apart stations. I think this is in between Pactor 1 and Pactor 2 speeds, but you should know. Winmor will also "gear shift" automatically. I.e. higher speeds in good HF conditions, and slower speeds in heavy QSB or QRN.
Here is the proof posted on the Yahoo Groups Winmor page:
------------------------------------------------------------------
We sent rather long paragraphs of rtf test data back and forth--first at 500Hz
then back at 2Khz. Good solid path on 7080.
Thanks Lori.
This is how it should work.
*** Connected to: VE3VBA @ 2000 Hz at 2009/10/04 20:11:57
[RMS Express-0.2.5.0-B2F]
; VE3VBA DE KU8L (EN82) >
[RMS Express-0.2.5.0-B2F]
; KU8L DE VE3VBA (EN58JJ)
FF
FC EM 04S09BY6Y313 5118 2035 0
F> 8E
FS Y
*** Sending 04S09BY6Y313...
FF
FQ
*** Session End
*** Disconnected at 2009/10/04 20:14:10
[Session Stats:] Duration: 2.23 min
Bandwidth: 2000 Mode Shifts: 1
Decode Attempts: 5
Weak R-S Decodes : 5 Weak R-S Sums: 0
Strong R-S Decodes: 0 Strong R-S Sums: 0
Bytes Sent : 2172 Bytes Received: 63
Thuput(bytes/min): 1002
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Skim through some of the supporting documentation on the "File" page in the Yahoo Winmor Group.
73's
Bernard
ZS4BDK |
Edited by - ZS4BDK on 05/10/2009 15:50:50 |
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ZS4BDK
Junior Forumer
184 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 18:50:31
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Here we go....
Thuput(bytes/min): 3988 !!!! @ 2000 Hz OH7JJT / PD4U Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2620 of 2620 < Prev | Next >
2009-10-05 15:44:17 0.2.5.0 *** Connect Request to OH7JJT at 2009-10-05 15:44:17
2009-10-05 15:44:22 0.2.5.0 *** Connected to: OH7JJT @ 2000 Hz at 2009-10-05
15:44:22
2009-10-05 15:44:32 0.2.5.0 [RMS Express-0.2.5.0-B2F]
2009-10-05 15:44:32 0.2.5.0 ; PD4U DE OH7JJT (KP52CL) >
2009-10-05 15:44:32 0.2.5.0 [RMS Express-0.2.5.0-B2F]
2009-10-05 15:44:32 0.2.5.0 ; OH7JJT DE PD4U (JO22XE)
2009-10-05 15:44:32 0.2.5.0 FC EM A5KWLF319JYY 359 251 0
2009-10-05 15:44:32 0.2.5.0 FC EM KHH3MQ455UJH 45515 42333 0
2009-10-05 15:44:32 0.2.5.0 F> 60
2009-10-05 15:45:10 0.2.5.0 FS NY
2009-10-05 15:45:10 0.2.5.0 *** Message Id: A5KWLF319JYY Rejected, move to sent
Items folder.
2009-10-05 15:45:10 0.2.5.0 *** Sending KHH3MQ455UJH...
2009-10-05 15:52:50 0.2.5.0 *** Disconnected at 2009-10-05 15:52:50
2009-10-05 15:52:50 0.2.5.0 [Session Stats:] Duration: 8,48 min
Bandwidth: 2000 Mode Shifts: 3
Decode Attempts: 4
Weak R-S Decodes : 4 Weak R-S Sums: 0
Strong R-S Decodes: 0 Strong R-S Sums: 0
Bytes Sent : 33752 Bytes Received: 60
Thuput(bytes/min): 3988
> Pactor 2 speeds....
(Consistent with the expected forecasts.)
See Page 22 on the PowerPoint .ppt presentation here:
http://www.winlink.org/WINMOR
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Edited by - ZS4BDK on 05/10/2009 19:04:47 |
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ZS1AAZ
Moderator
340 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 21:40:02
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Hallo Everyone
I operated an HF BBS for seven years, starting with a PK232 and then a PTC2, eventually upgrading to Pactor 3. There always seems to be this need for speed, but I think one should consider what you will do with high speed data transfer once you've got it. I rarely used Pactor for keyboard to keyboard contacts, it was much too fast for that. I suspect the average operator does not type much faster than 3 characters per second, and PSK31 is fast enough for that. I tried to get some sort of correlation between data speed and propagation conditions and found that strong signals did not necessarily mean high data speed. Eventually I decided that multipath propagation was the cause of slow data speeds. Often things went better with low signal strengths rather than good signals.
Another interesting thing is that amateurs are often prepared to spend quite a lot on the transceiver but are unwilling to buy other equipment if it is a bit expensive. This is even truer for yachtsmen! They will often cross oceans with only a VHF radio, no HF and no means of sending e-mail. When I ask them about it, they say the pactor modems are too expensive! I often wonder how much they spent on the yacht.
I still have my PTC2, now upgraded with 2MB memory and cards for up to 19200 baud data on higher frequencies, and it has given me so much fun that I will probably never part with it. I also own the SCS Tracker, also a bit expensive but very good for HF APRS, etc.
Nevertheless, I will be watching this new mode with interest.
Regards
Henry
ZS1AAZ
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ZS4BDK
Junior Forumer
184 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2009 : 04:10:32
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Hallo Henry,
Thanks, great info.
 I agree, Cheap yachties....
Boy, I would like get my hands on an SCS Pactor 3 upgrade TNC....
Robust Pactor 3 and proven on the High Seas.
Sound cards can blow out, but so can all electronics....
I guess I will wait a bit, since prices sure are to come down a bit now that Winmor seems viable, and Pactor 3 is restricted on the USA ham bands.
Incidentally, look at this guy's solution to the external sound card option:
Posted on the Yahoo Winmor reflector, worked well for him.
Frees up your internal sound card for simultaneous music, Echolink, other digital modes etc.etc, and could be screened from RF with foil....
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000N35A0Y/ref=pd_luc_mri?_encoding=UTF8&m=A3V6BK4D0HKA8F&v=glance
Best 73's
Bernard.
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Edited by - ZS4BDK on 06/10/2009 04:41:30 |
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ZS4BDK
Junior Forumer
184 Posts |
Posted - 20/10/2009 : 20:13:12
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Hi All,
Just an update on the Winmor Beta testing:
Version 0.3.1.0 is now available.
The protocol is slightly changed.
Below are some encouraging results, much faster than Pactor 2.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: [WINMOR] Re: Even better rate @ 1600 Hzþ
From: winmor@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Josh Gibbs (gibbsjj@gmail.com)
Sent: 20 October 2009 07:41:46 PM
To: WINMOR@yahoogroups.com
Ed,
Try a bigger file and you will get an even better number.
Thuput is calculated using data sent during the entire session, and
there is a lot of time spent negotiating at the beginning of a
session.
Best I have seen out of the current version in my own testing is 7390.
I had perfect 100 scores and perfect constellation display on both
ends, so I think that is pretty much as fast as this version of RMS
Express is going to go. File sent was 100K .JPG, method was two sound
cards directly connected via audio cables.
-Josh KD7PAJ
> There is great potential in RMS Express.
>
> Using a test bed of two HF stations running at their lowest power
> into their individual dummy loads I can test and adjust my station
> so that, first of all, it works, and then attempt to optimize.
>
> After a few hours of test and adjust, yesterdays final result:
>
> 2009/10/19 22:11:24 0.3.1.0
> [Session Stats:] Duration: 3.36 min
>
> Bandwidth: 0 Mode Shifts: 0
> Decode Attempts: 6
> Weak R-S Decodes : 6 Weak R-S Sums: 0
> Strong R-S Decodes: 0 Strong R-S Sums: 0
> Bytes Sent : 20779 Bytes Received: 60
> Thuput(bytes/min): 6195
> and
> 2009/10/19 22:18:45 0.3.1.0
> [Session Stats:] Duration: 3.37 min
> Bandwidth: 0 Mode Shifts: 0
> Decode Attempts: 6
> Weak R-S Decodes : 6 Weak R-S Sums: 0
> Strong R-S Decodes: 0 Strong R-S Sums: 0
> Bytes Sent : 20799 Bytes Received: 60
> Thuput(bytes/min): 6186
>
> Leaky Dummy Load testing.
> FT-897D - SLUSB WinXP
> TS-480SAT - SLUSB WinXP
>
> ed
> AG1M
> Brighton CO
------------------------------------------------------------------
Enjoy,
Bernard.
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Edited by - ZS4BDK on 20/10/2009 20:46:26 |
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ZS4BDK
Junior Forumer
184 Posts |
Posted - 22/10/2009 : 08:44:07
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Hi All,
I am "connecting" my laptops running RMS Express 0.3.1.0 in my shack via sound (audio) only. (No RF). The two laptops simply communicate
through their internal soundcards and internal mikes and speakers, and are placed about 1 ft apart. The results are encouraging. For HF "QRM", I have my dog barking in the background, the telephone ringing, my son's music from the next room, etc. ....=)
RMS Express simply asks for a retry (ARQ), then the sending station resends the frame, and soldiers on.
Laptop #1 : Toshiba Protege Intel Pentium 1.5 GHz 1 GB Ram
Windows XP
Soundmax Digital Audio-00 (Internal)
Laptop #2 : A very old Dell Latitude Intel Pentium 297 Mhz 256 MB Ram
Windows XP
Neomagic AV Audio (WDM)-00 (Internal).
At 500 Hz bandwidth, no crashes sending and receiving large .JPG files either way. At 1600 Hz bandwidth, no crashes when sending from Laptop #2 to Laptop #1, but regular crashes of RMS Express on Laptop #2, when receiving at 1600 Mhz from Laptop #1. Me thinks 297 Mhz speed and 256 MB Ram is not enough for receiving at 1600 Hz.
Best thruput so far, after adjusting the soundcards for the highest constellation scores, is more than 4000. (Better than Pactor 2).
With version 0.3.1.0 the crashes are significantly less, and the software will be completely robust quite soon.
I am going to use my XYL's new laptop as laptop #2 in future....=)
Shhhhh...
FWIW.
Bernard
ZS4BDK
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Edited by - ZS4BDK on 23/10/2009 14:13:52 |
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ZS4BDK
Junior Forumer
184 Posts |
Posted - 23/10/2009 : 15:26:05
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Hi All,
I am testing RMS Express in a local loop between two fast laptops,
using sound (audio) microphones to speakers only, no audio cables or RF.
(1.5 Ghz, 1 GB RAM, Windows XP, with modern internal soundcards).
I just had three crashes (freezes), without any exception logs, on the receiving machine at 1600 Hz bandwidth halfway through different large .JPG files.
Constellation scores were around 40, which is good enough and much higher than the minimum 20 for decoding purposes.
It seems the decoding goes into a deteriorating slide, frame after frame, and then RMS Express crashes.
The usual precursor to the crash, is more and more P's and +'s in the line of characters above the waterfall display.
Also, at the crash, the CPU usage peaks. (Although this was less than 50 % in most cases).
Any comments or ideas from the digital guru's will be appreciated.
This problem has been rectified in later versions.
RMS Express does not crash anymore.
Bernard
ZS4BDK
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Edited by - ZS4BDK on 17/11/2009 22:39:03 |
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Winmor (Virtual TNC) software out on Beta testing.
